Comments on: Caprica review: ‘Reins of a Waterfall’

By: Jim

Jim — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 01:44:39 +0000

I have to agree with enniofan’s assessment. Aside from many bad examples in Star Trek (Angel One?), there is another issue. The old axiom “write about what you know” may or may not be completely true (i’m not a writer but i’ve taken writing courses at college and heard this many times) but presumably this show is written and produced in North America, so it isn’t surprising that their culture is derived from ours.

So i guess the question really is, how much different does their culture need to be? If it’s too different it risks being over the top fake, if it’s too similar it strains believability.

By: enniofan

enniofan — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 00:38:36 +0000

I wonder why people are harping — just now — about the mimicking of popular American, or western culture in Caprica?

it’s been evident since the BSG mini series that we were the model for fictional colonial society.

I like the fact that it’s familiar, yet not. Lived in, yet completely alien.

It’s cool that they don’t go out of their way — to the point of absurdity like they do in Trek — to create NEW ceremonies, new extravagant make-up, new technobabble.

If we’re talking about people and free society, why is not unlikely that such a society might develop like ours, with cars, computers, robots, etc? this isn’t TNG where everything and everyone is brightly polished, even in war time.

It’s Caprica: they’re hedonistic, about to create a race of slaves, and on the verge of total annihilation. You gotta run with it at least a little bit.

By: karatasiospa

karatasiospa — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:29:50 +0000

To Eileen
DNA does not dictate specific cultural traits that is unscientific. otherwise how can you explain the myriad different musics and dances all around the world? as a not american i know how many differences exist in these specific cultural traits around the world. Or perhaps “zeimbekiko” ( a native dance in my country Greece) is a result of colonial DNA? I understand that Moore wants to make direct references to modern american culture but sometimes he goes too far.

By: knitpicker

knitpicker — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:49:44 +0000

Chris – what grates on me is that with all the rich variety of the world’s cultures available to them, they are focussed on stereotypical US norms. I think they could have set the scene just as effectively while being more creative in the choice of steotypes and in the casting.

By: Chris L

Chris L — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:56:55 +0000

knitpicker,
You are exactly right about why things were designed that way for BSG and Caprica. My point is that TPTB can also justify it with the internal logic of their story.

By: Eileen

Eileen — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:46:45 +0000

Likewise Tony. I’m pretty sure the reason I’m here is for great discussions and debates, thanks for this one.

Battlestar Galactica (and Caprica, it seems) are great for analyzing and interpreting; it’d be wrong not to talk about them with people afterwards.

Knitpicker – That makes a lot of sense as well, and what a great way to explain it, hehe.

By: knitpicker

knitpicker — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:20:09 +0000

An analogy : in Star Trek TOS, there was an episode where the audience needed to identify an alien which was attracted to salt. A bunch of futuristic salt shakers were designed, which then required overt labeling in the dialog so the viewers knew what they were. In the end, the choice was made to use an easily identifiable salt shaker. Similarly, in this show, they could create all kinds of novel cultural stuff and then devote lots of time to teaching us what it all means. It looks like they chose to use existing stereotypes to give a quick fix on the cultural setting. Given how long it is taking to establish the plot line as it is, this may have been a reasonable choice; although I agree with Tony that they could have been less heavy handed.

By: Tony

Tony — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:07:07 +0000

Thanks Eileen! I appreciate the lively debate. BTW, I like Caprica, hope I am not coming across as too negative in that regard. A little nitpick here and there I can live with, and what I loved about BSG (and I guess now w/Caprica) is exactly this sort of dialogue/exchange, which means that people are thinking about what they are watching, and not just sitting passively in front of their TV screens.
Oh….one more thing: BSG fans are 99.99999% polite, well-informed and hardly ever rude, so even if one disagrees, there’s no need to be….disagreeable.
Cheers!

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:32:29 +0000

Tony – I understand all that, definitely. I guess the point I was trying to make goes along with what I sort of thought was insinuated during the last episode. I sort of saw the ‘everything has happened before and will happen again’ thing as saying that things would evolve the exact same way (not just genetically but culturally too). I’m pretty sure there’s a theory about that and it makes sense to me; why would we evolve differently in culture if not through DNA?

I think it just depends on opinions – I’m not trying to convince you of this necessarily, just explain it… What I thought they were saying in that last scene of the last episode was that ‘God’ was just running the same thing over and over again and trying to get it to work, but it kept screwing up. (That’s not necessarily specifying whether there is a God or not.) I thought Ron Moore and the other writers were sort of saying that, no matter what, we’re going to keep doing these really stupid things over and over again, no matter what. Genetics and culture would both evolve the same because experiences would all be the same and, eventually, we’d die off again. Just a thought.

By: Tony

Tony — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:34:24 +0000

Eileen – I was a fanatical follower of BSG, from the miniseries to the bitter end – and by “bitter end” I mean that I was not too happy w/the way the series ended. Someone else wrote about ties – another great example. The Colonials may have mated with us and passed some DNA down to us, but, DNA does not replicate SPECIFIC CULTURAL ITEMS! DNA is (essentially) a complicated set of instructions that tells cell “X” to become a nose cell, and cell “Y” to become a hair follicle, for example. It does not pass down musical scores, sports rules, fashion styles, TV shows, etc… MAYBE I could buy into one song – I’ll let Watchtower slide, but, a an entire genre? And, it’s also tied-in to gangsters….gangsta rap, hip-hop = Tauron gangsters!?!?! WTF??? Am I the only one who sees the absurdity in this? This is bordering on parody. I always thought the “…has happened before…” line was about history repeating itself and sentient beings not learning from their past mistakes and thus making the same mistakes over and over – it’s not a phrase that describes humans = colonials = humans = colonials, ad infinitum. We are NOT the same – we don’t play Pyramid, but, we do play sports. That’s an acceptable and believable analog. Close, but not an exact match. When the show starts imitating our culture verbatim, it’s too much for me.

By: Eileen

Eileen — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:10:21 +0000

My point was like what Nolan said; music is exactly the kind of thing that would repeat itself.
Also, you spelt my name wrong, hehe.

By: Chris L

Chris L — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:31:55 +0000

Nolan,
To go along with your point, it is insinuated (during Daybreak part 2) that much of our culture was inherited from theirs. That’s why everything looks so similar. I mean how likely would it be for two different cultures in two different star systems to come up with a fashion accessory like a tie? That illogical piece of clothing would have to have a common source.

By: Nolan

Nolan — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:48:59 +0000

Actually karatasiospa, considering events that transpire in the last two seasons the end of the third to be precise…”All this has happened before and all this will happen again” can specifically apply to music.

By: karatasiospa

karatasiospa — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:24:02 +0000

To Eleen
The “all this happened before and will happen again” is notfor the music!
it is a reference to social evolution. It is rather imprpable that even if the history would start again it wiould be exactly the same especially in such matters as music!!

By: Eileen

Eileen — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:03:03 +0000

I agree that there’s a lot going on and, though I am really enjoying all the story lines, it is a little depressing when I realize the episode is over and so little seems to have happened. Then again, I think the crazy issues/ relationships/ topics covered make up for it, so far.

@Tony; I don’t know if you’ve seen the end of BSG (and I don’t want to spoil anything) but if you have I’d just like to point out the ‘it has all happened before and it shall all happen again’ thing (I hope that’s not too much of a spoiler) as it explains how Colonial and Human similarities make sense.

By: Tony

Tony — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:43:15 +0000

I agree wholeheartedly with your observations Jammer, as well as with what most of you have written. My main nitpick with this show, and it’s a big one, is that Caprican/Colonial culture is WAY too close to our actual Western culture in the 21st century. Tauron HIP-HOP? Really? C’mon….hearing hip-hop music AND seeing a Jon Stewart/Bill Mahr type of tv show smacks of absurdity. I can see two similar life forms (Colonials and Humans) evolving independently of one another across this vast, vast Universe of ours (although that’s a big stretch too). But, when these people have the same exact music as us? No way! That aspect of this show takes me completely out of the sci-fi realm and into the B.S. one.

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:04:14 +0000

Fair enough. I’m really enjoying it, but I probably agree it’s because I am patiently awaiting the payoff. I texted my friend after I first watched this episode saying “It’s building” which in other words means it hasn’t gotten there yet.

It obviously has disadvantage over BSG in that it can’t have the same kind of gripping things happening while we wait for the real series plot to start. The story of BSG didn’t really get going until the end of the first season, but the more small scale stories about survival after that attack kept us intrigued. Small scale stories about life on Caprica would never captivate in the same way.

I do like Matt’s point though about over serialising. If the series does pay off big time in the end, I think we’ll appreciate these episodes more as part of a cohesive whole. But until then, it can give us a feeling of “And?” at the end of each episode. This could pose a risk to the sustainability in terms of the ratings of course so hopefully they’ll give us something soon.

Still, as you say Jammer, it’s watchable and I’ll continue to watch anticipating that it will be worth the wait.

By: knitpicker

knitpicker — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:32:33 +0000

mouse – I hadn’t thought about where the Humlons came from. My vote would be Zoe as 6 and Tamara as 8. Now, who gets killed off to make the boys?

By: Will

Will — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:52:44 +0000

@Joe, yeah, the Caprica story was in the minds of the creators during that time. I got hold of a copy of the pilot script and it’s dated around when Crossroads aired.

I actually missed the episode before this “Rebirth” and the first half of the pilot because I live in the UK and it airs during schooltime on a Tuesday so I’m forced to record it. It was okay with the Pilot becuase I saw the second half and I read in the script what happened in the first half, so is that the reason I found this episode confusing?

I think there is a bit too much going on on Caprica. It’s difficult to follow at time. I think the most intriguing story is the part with Zoe in it. I’m interested in how the whole story will pan it though, and I for one believe it may be the DS9 to BSG’s TNG. I hope.

By: mouse

mouse — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:56:04 +0000

Tamara’s plot once again made me think of that theory someone had on a message board that some of the characters we are witnessing now are going to become Cylons themselves, and perhaps part of the core personalities that will make up the Humlons.

She also struck me as a really strong, erm person? “I can’t feel my heart beating but I can’t worry about that now.” Kind of an amazing UnKid.

@Matt L – I agree with you about the why for Adama going to seek Tamara. I just wish the show had done show instead of tell.